Aug 31, 2007 12:15 am US/Central
Craig To Officer: 'You Solicited Me'
(WCCO)
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U.S. Sen. Larry Craig (File)
MSP Airport Police
Airport Police have released the audio tape of the interrogation between Sgt. Dave Karsnia and Idaho Sen. Larry Craig after Craig's arrest at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport in June.
According to the criminal complaint filed against Craig, Karsnia was investigating allegations of sexual conduct in airport restrooms and he went into a stall shortly after noon on June 11 and closed the door.
In the taped interrogation, Craig said that Karsnia was the one that solicited him. Karsnia went on to explain what would happen to Craig if he pleaded guilty or not guilty.
Karsnia read Craig his rights and when asked if he understands his rights, Craig responded, "I do" and decides to continue the interview by the investigator.
At the beginning of the interview, Karsnia asks Craig to give his side of what happened in the bathroom at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport.
"Well, I go into the bathroom here as I normally do, I'm a commuter through here. I sit down to go to the bathroom and you said our feet bumped. I believe they did because I reached down and scooted over. And the next thing I knew under the bathroom divider comes a card that says police," Craig explained.
He told the investigator, "that's as far as I can take it" saying he doesn't know of anything else. He admitted that their feet did touch under the stall.
"I am not gay, I don't do these kinds of things," said Craig.
Karsnia told Craig he doesn't care about sexual preference. Craig agreed, saying that Karsnia is out to enforce the law but said what Karsnia "shouldn't be out to entrap people either."
According to the criminal complaint, while in the stall Craig passed his left hand under the stall divider into Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider toward the front of the stall three times.
In the interrogation, Karsnia asked Craig what he was doing with his hand.
"What about it? I reached down with my foot like this, there was a piece of paper on the floor, I picked it up. What about my hand?" said Craig.
"Well, you're not being truthful with me, I'm kind-of disappointed with you, Senator," said Karsnia.
The investigator explained to Craig that he is trying to treat everyone with dignity, pulling them away from the situation and not embarrass them.
"I will say every person that I have had so far has told me the truth, we've been respectful to each other, and then they've gone on their way. I've never had to bring anyone to jail because they have all been truthful with me," said Karsnia.
Karsnia explained that he will not take Craig to jail as long as he is cooperative with him.
"Did my hand come below the divider? Yes it did," said Craig.
The interrogation continued with Karsnia saying he doesn't want to be lied to and asked to start the interview over from the beginning.
Craig again said he went into the bathroom and stood beside the wall, waiting for a stall to open. He said he then went into a stall, sat down and "started to go to the bathroom."
Again, Craig does not dispute that their feet touched underneath the stalls.
Karsnia told Craig that there were other stalls open in the bathroom and questioned why Craig was waiting.
"At the time I entered I stood and waited," said Craig. "They were all busy."
According to the complaint, Karsnia saw Craig gazing into his stall through the crack between the stall door and the frame, fidgeted with his fingers and returned to gazing through the stall for about another two minutes.
"Did I glance at your stall? I was glancing at a stall right beside yours waiting for a fellow to empty it. I saw him stand up and therefore I thought it was going to empty," Craig said during the interview.
When Karsnia asked Craig how long he had been standing there he said, "oh, a minute or two at the most."
During the interview Craig said that he didn't know what did with his feet when he entered the stall.
"Positioned them. I don't know, I don't know at the time. I'm a fairly wide guy. I tend to spread my legs when I lower my pants so they won't slide," said Craig.
According to the interview, while in the stall Craig does not remember how many times he reached his hand down but again said he did reach down to pick up a piece of toilet paper that was behind him.
Again, Karsnia said that Craig passed his left hand under the stall divider into Karsnia's stall with his palm up and guided it along the divider toward the front of the stall.
"I could see the gold wedding ring when it went across. I could see that on your left hand," said Karsnia.
The two argued about Craig moving his left hand under the stall. Craig said his left hand was opposite to the stall where Karsnia was and he wouldn't have used it, while Karsnia said he could tell by the position that it was Craig's left hand.
Karsnia asked Craig how often he traveled through the airport.
"Almost weekly," said Craig.
"Have you been successful in these bathrooms here before?" asked Karsnia.
"I go to that bathroom regularly," said Craig.
Karsnia clarified by asking what type of activity.
"Absolutely not. I don't seek activity in bathrooms," said Craig.
Karsnia then told Craig that while he still respects him, he feels disrespected because Craig is "sitting here, lying to a police officer."
Craig again admitted that he put his hand down.
"You put your hand and rubbed it on the bottom of the stall, with your left hand and I'm not dumb," said Karsnia.
Craig said the only way he could get his left hand over to Karsnia's stall was by turning sideways.
Karsnia told Craig that it's not that hard and that he sees it everyday out at the airport. Karsnia again said he is disappointed in him.
"I expect this from the guy we get out of the hood but, I mean, people vote for you. Unbelievable. Unbelievable," said Karsnia.
The two continue disputing whether or not Craig reached down with his left hand. Karsnia asked if Craig's gold ring was ever on his right hand and Craig said no.
"Then it was your left hand, I saw it with my own eyes," said Karsnia.
"You saw something that didn't happen," said Craig.
Karsnia again expressed how embarrassing this situation is and ends the interview asking Craig if he has anything else to add. Craig said no.
Karsnia, 29, joined the airport police department just out of college in 2000 and was promoted to sergeant in 2005. Last year, he earned a master's degree in criminal justice, leadership and education.
He has arrested at least a dozen men in the airport's bathroom for sending signals he believed were aimed at initiating sex. Each time, Karsnia walked suspects to a spot where they could speak privately, without embarrassing them, according to the police reports he wrote. He didn't handcuff them.
(© 2007 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.)